Quiet Camera's

[roxics]

How quiet is the nikon R10, the canon 1014 or the chinon 200/8XL?
Are they quiet enough for doing features? Quiet enough for reconding audio with the camera near the actor?

I don't want to spend alot of money on a super8 camera because i'll need to pay the $500 to get it crystal synced as well. I really don't want to go over $800 for a camera with crystal sync. If I do then i'll get into the range on 16mm. I can shoot 16mm for $38 a roll (processing included) that's only $8 more then super 8. But what get's me with 16mm is the cost of a quite camera like an arri 16 BL and the time it take sto load the camera right. I have a k-3 16mm camera but it's very noisy. But could be used for silent shot if I were to shoot 16mm. But I also have a couple super8's that could be used for silent shots and mutiple angles when shooting action scenes.


So I need a good quiet super8 camera for $800 or under including crystal sync. These three camera's looked interesting. Any other recommendations? It needs to be able to have crystal sych added.

I'm getting very close to my time to shoot my feature and I'm trying to deceide between 16mm, super8 and miniDV. I'd rather shoot film and have the money for some film but not alot. 4 hours worth.

The new vision 200 from kodak is great timing but still doesn't come in alot less then what I can get 16mm for. About $8 less.

[roxics]

What about nizo camera's as well?

[#Pedro]

I think Nizo and Bauer are the most quiet ones, but I may be wrong. There is one Bauer model with the great Angenieux lens 1.2/6-90, as was coupled with some Beaulieus.
For my opinion, it?s only woth to spent a lot of money in the crystal conversion, if the value of the camera is adequat. Most S8 cameras without ground glass viewfinder are very difficult to control (distance setting). All settings must be even more accurate than with 16mm, to get comparable results. The noise you can reduce with a blimb (English word?), a special case to cover the camera. It the perspective allows it, you can go more distant to the actor, using the zoom lens, or perhaps repeat the words in post prod. The standard reversal stock is much cheaper in S8 than in 16mm. F.e. K40 50ft = $10 incl. developing, 16mm 100 ft = $50 incl. developing.
Pedro

[pcg]

Pedro's correct about the quietest cameras. Many writers say the Nizo 800 series & the Nizo Professional are the most quiet.

See The Film Group's web site for a comprehensive list of cameras that they convert to crystal sync. www.members.aol.com/fmgp/index.htm

If you haven't done so, you'd be wise to also peruse the last month's worths of posts on this forum. There have been lengthy discussions about whether to crystal sync or not...

You can usual pick up one of the above Nizos for between $275-325 on eBay. Crystal sync is $500+, depending on the camera...

/Pat

[Hanthx]

I've had the chance to work with the Canon 1014 xls, and it purrs like a kitten. It has 10 times zoom which really comes in handy as a cinematographer. Nizo and Bauer are also great, but take a look at some pic's of all the cameras that your interested in, and do some research...you'll find your answer.
Scott

[Alex]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by #Pedro:

Most S8 cameras without ground glass viewfinder are very difficult to control (distance setting). All settings must be even more accurate than with 16mm, to get comparable results.
Pedro<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't entirely agree with that statment, I believe Super-8 has significantly more depth of field at all comparable settings between 16mm and Super-8mm.

-Alex

[tom hardwick]

I think Pedro was refering to the ease with which an image cam be focused on a ground glass screen (a real image) rather than on a split image rangefinder aerial image (an unreal image).

But yes, Standard8 has more depth of field than Super8 and Mini DV has much more dof than either of them. The shorter the diagonal of the frame the shorter the focal length must be for a given angle of view. Ergo: more DOF.

tom.

[#Pedro]

I was not talking about DOF, I simply wanted remember to the general tolerance problem when comparing smaller and larger formats and that this may disturb proffessional working.
The smaller any dimension is (in our case the frame size), more critical the general tolerance problem becomes. This is regarding to all tolerances, focus and collimation, transport mechanism and so on, even dust. When S8 is 4 times smaller than 16mm, all tolerances must be at least 4 times more accurate, too. This becomes difficult for the settings you must control by yourself, like focusing.
The DOF is also a tolerance, a focus tolerance. You define the diameter of a circle on your film, when shooting a singular spot, and assume, that under normal magnifying conditions, f.e. a 2 meter screen, this circle gives the impression as it looked like the original filmed spot.
Assuming the same diameter in S8, you would have to magnify the film 4 times more than 16 mm and propably you will loose the impression that the object is a spot. It became a cycle, is not in focus anymore.
So you will have to reduce the focus tolerance in S8, too, reduce the max. diameter of the cycle you accept to give the impression of sharpness. You must focus more accurate.
This is relativated partly because you use smaller lenses in S8, which gives more DOF. But to achieve a really sharp focus setting, that remains sharp on the same screen size as 16 mm, more accurance is required. And the viewfinder technology reaches it?s limits. The only thing that helps is a ground glass viewfinder.
Pedro

[Hanthx]

Alex

Super 8mm does have more depth of field than any other format (unless 8mm is better). Im assuming thats because of the smaller medium it ultilizes. I think Pedro referring to focusing.
Scott

[Alex]

And yet, it's difficult to mess up focus when wide and the subject is close when shooting Super-8, yet in 35mm, I see these shots out of focus regularly.

If the Super-8 Camera is properly backfocused...then I think it is easier to set and keep focus in Super-8 than in 16mm or 35mm.

-Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited March 26, 2001).]